#94616 - 10/14/11 12:00 AM
The mid-semester doubts.
|
kittydoctor
Beyond hope
Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 1228
Loc: West Texas
|
Hi folks,
Well, the KD is in a quandry. Do I try to get tuition back (past deadline, but dean working on it,) and quit, or stick it out for the semester and let the chips fall where they may?
Once again lowest student in LWR with newby prof whom I think is singling me out. Not really sure. I would just like to say to them all, "Inside that room is a cat, some equipment, drugs, and some cloth. Please perform an ovariohysterectomy. Due tomorrow by noon. No assistance allowed. Live animal result preferred" What an asinine method. I have never worked in an attorney's office, so how do I learn to research with no help allowed? Oops, too late. Got the grade, the lowest. Times 2, with 3 on the way.
Any advice on surviving and getting C's would be greatly appreciated.
And to OLG's post about getting called on to stand and deliver, and stood up and remained mute-been there, my friend.
_________________________
Mary
The cow is of the bovine ilk,
One end is moo, the other milk.
Ogden Nash
First veterinarian admitted to TTU!
My blog: DrinkingOutOfTheTrough.com
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#94617 - 10/14/11 09:11 AM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: kittydoctor]
|
cfood2010
Senior Contributor
Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 108
|
KD,
advice on surviving...
In law school, it was my experience and belief that my understanding of what was taught to me in my LWR class was the key to performing well in all my other substantive classes.
I applied what I learned in LWR to my essay exams in all my other classes and it paid off well.
Also, I used the writing methods in my critical thinking of all other classes.
In short, do whatever it takes to "get it" in LWR. IMO, if you "get" LWR, then you've got the tools to succeed in your other classes.
Ironically, I found that so many students placed LWR as their last priority.
In my case, no matter how much it pained me, I always started very early on my LWR assignments, and turned in a paper/assignment that had been edited many, many, many times.
I wore out our LWR TA, and I always stayed after every class to speak w/ the prof for a minute...and listen to conversations b/t other students and the prof.
Students who turn in what is essentially a first draft, even a second or third draft can get clobbered.
I'm not sure where you are in LWR...it's mid October...so, I'm thinking your working on a memo? right?
LWR is tough in that it always seemed that whatever time you spent on it, you lost all your time for other classes. So, many students end up sacraficing time that needed to be spent on LWR to time on other classes.
And, IMO, to "get" LWR, it takes TIME and PRACTICE.
That's what I mean by painful...It meant I had to stay up late, get up early and work all weekend to kind of be caught up in other classes.
IMO, no one is a "natural" at LWR and anyone is capable of "gettint it."
It sounds like you need to have a good conversation w/ your prof. Since my prof was an adjunct (I think most LWR are) I met him at his office a couple of times for help.
Whatever efforts you're doing now, I think you should make adjustments and place that class as a top priority....Success (however defined) in that class will pay off dividends in all your other classes come final exam time, IMO.
Finally, my LWR prof sort of played a trick on us...In the beginning, the school explained how each LWR assignment grade was "weighted" and how our final LWR grade was determined. However, I'm positive the LWR profs had wide discretion to alter a student's final grade if they performed well on thier final paper (and, didn't miss class, made good efforts througout the semester, etc.). He kept on encouraging those who were doing poorly to keep pushing at getting it and reflecting that on their final paper.
Many students who were "bombing" some LWR assignments ended up okay, and in one instance in my class got one of the top LWR grades. Of course, I don't know if that's the case with your class/school.
It's not too late.
CF
Edited by cfood2010 (10/14/11 09:37 AM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94619 - 10/14/11 01:03 PM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: kittydoctor]
|
Lisa
Senior Contributor
Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 116
|
Mary,
I have watched you on this board since sometime in 2007 or early 2008 and you inspire me. Only you can decided whether it is worth it for you to push it out or whether it is better to withdraw and reclaim your tuition. Where are you going? What are you looking for? I ask because my three year term in law school amounted to three very long years. I enjoyed my time there, but it was still very difficult to keep up with the work. For me, the most important thing in life is to be happy, and I hope that is what you choose to pursue for yourself, whatever happiness means to you.
If you choose to stay in and want a long-distance tutor for your LRW class, I'll offer to help you. If you want better advice from the board, you need to give us more information on what type of comments you are getting back on the papers. And if you are not getting comments, make sure you take advantage of your meeting with the prof to try to narrow down the problem. You can email me at Lvinny32@Gmail.com if you want to talk further.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94622 - 10/14/11 09:17 PM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: Lisa]
|
tonyg
I have a lot of time on my hands
Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 290
Loc: The Wild Wild West
|
I am another one who struggled in LRW. I was a history major and felt that the writing styles required in LRW and my history undergrad could not be more different.
My first semester was brutal as I could not fathom why one would write in such a boring fashion. Now I get it. The irony is that legal writing in the real world rarely starts from scratch. You usually have templates to work with and heaven help you if you need to write an appellate motion from scratch.
Like Lisa, you inspired me as well Mary. I know you have a difficult choice ahead of you and one that only you can make. I wish the best for you and hope you can get past this mid semester funk. We all go through it. Ironically, my LRW was my lowest grade in law school, yet I survived.
I (like so many here) am pulling for you and hope to continue to hear about your adventures.
Best,
Tony
_________________________
Class of 2010.5
Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in. W. Churchill
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94626 - 10/14/11 10:23 PM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: kittydoctor]
|
kittydoctor
Beyond hope
Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 1228
Loc: West Texas
|
I'm back, had to talk to someone.
I have the ADA golden ticket this round, so I have a note taker, private room and extra time for tests, a civ pro prof who isn't a whack job, and I think I'll make it.
It's just that LP gets me. In vet med it would be like this: Online tutorial on how to spay a cat. Go in a room with cat, instruments, and some cloth materials. You have until X date to get this done. You may have no help from anyone whatsoever. On due date, patient must be without organs, and alive in order for you to pass. No human being helps or shows you the way.
That would never be done in vet school. We had observations, labs, partners, etc.
I'm glad I inspire people, but the KD is going through some serious shit. Fumbling around with psychoactive pharmacology and having emotional breakouts is just, literally, nuts.
Glad to have a dx. Trying out tx. Hope to understand jx.
oy
_________________________
Mary
The cow is of the bovine ilk,
One end is moo, the other milk.
Ogden Nash
First veterinarian admitted to TTU!
My blog: DrinkingOutOfTheTrough.com
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94628 - 10/14/11 10:38 PM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: kittydoctor]
|
Lisa
Senior Contributor
Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 116
|
Mary - if using the research tools is the basis of your problem, you should get in touch with your rep. They will be far more helpful to you than your prof, and there should be no problem with the honor code so long as you are not seeking assitance with the assignment itself. And if you can, pick one program. I never managed to master both and it seems to me there is no need to.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94630 - 10/14/11 11:44 PM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: kittydoctor]
|
AnnaD
NTL Addict
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 571
|
kittydoctor, what about librarians? We were always allowed (and highly encouraged) to talk to the librarians, and they really know their stuff. They will also probably know the proper line between helping you learn how to do the research and helping you research the specific assignment.
What specifically has been unsatisfactory about your assignments so far? (I'm assuming the prof must have told you something in a 2 hour meeting.)
The people I knew who had the hardest time with legal writing were those who'd always written well naturally, and hadn't ever had to think much about it before. It really is like learning to translate into another language. You can learn it, though, and you will!
And FWIW, I don't think I even know what a research pathway is.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94631 - 10/14/11 11:53 PM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: AnnaD]
|
kittydoctor
Beyond hope
Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 1228
Loc: West Texas
|
Anna, all the librarians are allowed to do on the research pathways is point to the source in the library. The online tutorials have quizzes due in one hour whereby we are not allowed to seek assistance.
After flunking two of the three so far-tutorial/quiz parts, then the prof gave my answer sheet to the new and totally wonderful JD/MLS, who guided me through. Then, for the second one, I had to do it on my own.
I followed Lisa's advice and contacted the reps for both Lexis and West for one on one personal help not related to assignments. I wish I had thought of it last year. Duh.
Prof was kind in letting me get the wrong answers right to pass. However, she is letting me have the time, due Mon, for the last research pathway. I turned it in last Friday, now I have to spend the weekend on it. I don't have the time. Since the first two were so low, I wonder if it would really make a difference. I need to move on to the open memo. Then I'll rule hard.
I refuse to be the crash dummy in LP and get the D due to the curve like I did last year. I am medicated, brain is clearing up, and emotional stuff resolves when the meds are adjusted properly. 7 dr. appts in 3.5 months. This is tough.
I'll just keep plugging along, and count on my NTL friends for sound advice.
Sort of cheers from the KD.
Go Tech, beat K-State!
_________________________
Mary
The cow is of the bovine ilk,
One end is moo, the other milk.
Ogden Nash
First veterinarian admitted to TTU!
My blog: DrinkingOutOfTheTrough.com
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#94635 - 10/15/11 01:33 AM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: AnnaD]
|
backbencher
NTL Addict
Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 868
Loc: Florida
|
Mary, RWA (our name) was the utter bane of my existence. Like Tonyg, I was a History major (BA and MA), plus I had been writing law review articles for years (so I had the handicap of being ingrained with using the "other half" of Bluebook!) And to top it off, my "instructor" (non-Prof rank, although they used the title) resented me completely for being a "real" Prof. How do I know? She actually told me once! For real!
And I get what you are saying. Our RWA was a common course plan where we learned brief-writing in pieces (must have been different; we had no pathways!) I am an intuitive systems thinker. Show me a whole, finished memo in any style, and I will learn how to do it myself, with minimal instruction and text support! But doing a memo in pieces-parts totally screwed me. I am one of those people who needs to see the carburetor in an engine to understand it. A "rule-proof," in a vacuum, is meaningless to me! Even worse, our system was actually mocked by firms doing summer intern interviews ("They still do that system?") and actual judges who read my memo post-class lamented that most lawyers could not write as well. And I got a D.
My advice: seek all help you can. Law librarians are the secret action heroes of law school. Make them your friends and law school gets 50% easier. Ditto the WL/Lexis reps. I could help you here. I am a pretty advanced legal database user. I am now fighting to get back Westlaw access at my new school. (Hint: If you don't know what the ALRs really are, learn! They are like the ultimate research shortcut/study guide of all time!)
Finally, remember anger and hate are the most productive emotions of all! When I hit a rough patch in 1L, a friend gave me the Mel Gibson line: "If life hates you, hate it back!" It can be healthy to change your focus from passing the class to beating the class.
As to Cs? My school had a rigid C+ curve. I managed a B- in the end, but saw plenty of Cs. My advice is simple: look at all you have accomplished already in your life, all you have overcome recently, and all you are battling, and then realize that for your goals, passing law school would be completely awesome. The rest is gravy. Make the competition between yourself and law school, and your health if you need to. Forget about what grades meant at other stages of life. Remember my Bar Exam? I was twice poisoned and suffering extreme blood-sugar induced vision problems. I was sure I was screwed, but I pushed on and I passed. It wasn't pretty, but look where I am now? You and I have the same problem: we are both doctorates, used to excelling in school, and maybe a little academically arrogant. But competing with 20 somethings, with all their energy (and mommy and daddy support-like study courses), is not an even race. (Hence the point of this board. Yes many of us excel, but it is a different experience!) I did ADA as well. Life has given us both advantages and disadvantages that make this a different journey than your classmates have. So just get tough and tight and hunker down in survival mode. Most of law school IS fun. But RWA is a hazing ritual we all must pass through. So get tough, get focused, even get angry and beat that course! And remember, a RWA grade that is passing is good enough! No one will mention your grade at your Supreme Court confirmation hearing!
And tell your bi-polar what I told my arm at times: I am too busy to hurt today! Come back after the exam!
And remember, you are an inspiration to hundreds of people on the board, and you probably have a bigger cheering section then anyone else in school. We got your back. Westlaw advice is an e-mail or phone call away!
_________________________
"Audere est Facere" (To Dare is To Do)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94639 - 10/15/11 04:52 PM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: kittydoctor]
|
Lisa
Senior Contributor
Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 116
|
Glad to be of help. And remember, as backbencher said, you have a huge cheering section over here. Best of luck!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94646 - 10/17/11 11:05 AM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: kittydoctor]
|
javalovr
Senior Contributor
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 219
|
What specifically do you mean when you say "understand?"
The bottom line is that you need to understand the black letter law that is involved in the case and the general scenario that's occurred. When I say general, I don't mean all the details, many of which are irrelevant. Instead, I mean the overall workings of case, so that you can identify similar situations where that same law could reasonably be applied and distinguish it from situations where it couldn't reasonably be applied. For example, you need to understand the facts of a contracts case well enough to identify where a battle-of-the-forms scenario has occurred, so that you can argue for the "correct" (with "correct" open to interpretation) law that the court should apply.
There were a number of complicated cases in various classes where I never truly understood every detail. That's really one of the big lessons for 1Ls - figuring out what's important to understand and what's not, because you don't want to waste time on what's not crucial to understanding the law and how it can be used. I think everyone has a particular knack for quickly "getting" certain kinds of cases - for you it's the ones involving medicine, while for me it might be cases dealing with the media. But even if a case involves an area you're not comfortable with, it's important to push through and make sense of it generally. Insurance cases are always a struggle for me, even when they involve relatively simple law, because they instantly put me to sleep!
Civil Procedure is probably a better example because it was my worst class - not because I didn't like the topic, but because my prof made what I thought should be at a very practical course (at least in part) into a hopelessly theoretical one. There were several cases that I just never got a grasp of. It was my lowest grade, although thankfully, it wasn't terrible.
Can you give us more details?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94649 - 10/17/11 09:58 PM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: javalovr]
|
kittydoctor
Beyond hope
Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 1228
Loc: West Texas
|
Civ Pro is hard for me too, Java. The nails on the board class for me had always been K. I guess since I did well in K and Torts, and having to take them again, I'm just in a funk.
Got up at 4 this am to meet with a prof early, and am really tired. Can't think, going to bed!
LP getting more manigible, and we are getting into open memos. Been there, done that, but poorly.
I did a stand and deliver in K today, so I'll catch up tomorrow when we are done at noon. Bad practice, but I'm dead tired.
Thanks,
KD
_________________________
Mary
The cow is of the bovine ilk,
One end is moo, the other milk.
Ogden Nash
First veterinarian admitted to TTU!
My blog: DrinkingOutOfTheTrough.com
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94650 - 10/17/11 11:27 PM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: kittydoctor]
|
JDACNP
Contributor
Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 71
Loc: Metro DC area
|
Hi KittyDoctor,
I can truly empathize with you. As you probably know, I am also in my 1L year. I thought I would weigh in on a few issues/questions. Let me start with the understanding cases. My background is also medical, and I can't tell you how happy I am when I see a medical case. Makes me smile, because, I like you, actually understand what they are saying. Other cases, I have about a 50/50 shot. The case books I'm using have a book of briefs that are keyed to them. I have found this very helpful (I also told a friend of mine who was WAY overwhelmed about the books and it has helped him tremendously).
As for Lexis and WestLaw, they have live support, both on the phone and on the computer. I was looking for something today that I couldn't find and clicked the little "live help" button and within a minute someone was Lexis was answering my question and pointing me in the right direction. I wasn't so lucky with West....10 minutes and no response. If the rep at your school is available that would probably be very beneficial, but if not, you can always go the route I did.
If you need a co-1L to commiserate with, shoot me a PM.
Best of Luck
JDACNP
_________________________
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for--Earl Warren
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94662 - 10/22/11 11:08 PM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: Still Cougar]
|
javalovr
Senior Contributor
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 219
|
You owe no one an explanation, Mary. I'm sorry thinks didn't work out, but you gave it your absolute best shot, especially given everything you've had going on over the past few years.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94663 - 10/23/11 02:51 AM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: kittydoctor]
|
ThaneJMessinger
Senior Contributor
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 236
|
Well, friends,
The KD is going to withdraw permanently. I can't fight this disease and be successful in law school. LP is Ds all the way so far, and I can't fight the curve. The time is to get out now rather than have the 6 weeks out stress.
v/r
KD
Aloha, KD -
Sorry for the delay, and a big hug from the Aloha State.
Indeed it is good to come to this understanding now, and who knows? Perhaps at some point in the future the planets will be properly aligned. To perhaps help with the decision, the stress does not end, really; it changes. There are times in each of our lives when it's really not the time to undertake a major additional commitment...of any type. And law school certainly qualifies. You go, girl. = : )
For all, some excellent advice on LRW. One point that might perhaps be emphasized: this is NOT an important part of law school. I know, I know. It's a crucially important part of the law. It's an important skill. It's certainly treated as important in law school . . . but not by professors. They do just about everything they can (in their minds) short of shouting from the rooftops to indicate just how unimportant they think it is. So, the goal is twofold: (1) do a serviceable job; and (2) create a picture-perfect writing sample for employers. Both goals are achieved by doing a modest amount--not too tart, not too sweet.
There's an anonymous law prof who's written on just this, in Law School Undercover. And for those ready to respond with vitriol for my dismissive statements above (good for you!), I suggest that for REAL legal writing, read Morten Lund's books, and especially the one on legal memoranda. That will help in law practice, and it might help in LRW too. Both books will almost certainly help in having the right attitude and understanding of the tasks at hand.
Best of luck, KD, in your future adventures, and best of luck to all, in future legal writing excursions.
Thane.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94664 - 10/23/11 02:52 AM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: javalovr]
|
txchick
Contributor
Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 62
|
KD, its only failure if you fail to try--you never did that, you tried twice. God bless you, you're in my prayers.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#94670 - 10/24/11 02:53 PM
Re: The mid-semester doubts.
[Re: txchick]
|
Lisa
Senior Contributor
Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 116
|
Best of luck to you, Mary. You are still a model of persistence in my book, and your own physical and mental well-being is more valuable than a law degree any day of the week. Take care of yourself.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
