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#91426 - 08/24/10 07:07 PM Re: Study Techniques: Advice and Comments [Re: fllaw]
oldlawgirl Offline
NTL Addict


Registered: 11/05/06
Posts: 595
Read assignment
Think about assignment
Brief cases in assignment in whatever way you are comfortable
Go to class
Take notes
After a few weeks start typing up outline using your notes and the topic headers in the casebook as a starting point.
A few weeks before exam, start reviewing outline while keeping up with reading
Don't freak out at any time and continually remind yourself everyone is as lost/panicked/behind/confused/clueless as you are.
Repeat all of the above

That's it...it is really that simple. ;-)

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#91432 - 08/26/10 05:16 AM Re: Study Techniques: Advice and Comments [Re: oldlawgirl]
fllaw Offline
Senior Contributor


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 185
 Originally Posted By: oldlawgirl


That's it...it is really that simple. ;-)


I know there is a deeper meaning in this. But I am not sure what it is!

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#91513 - 09/06/10 05:32 PM Re: Study Techniques: Advice and Comments [Re: oldlawgirl]
ThaneJMessinger Offline
Senior Contributor


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 231
 Originally Posted By: oldlawgirl
Read assignment
Think about assignment
Brief cases in assignment in whatever way you are comfortable
Go to class
Take notes
After a few weeks start typing up outline using your notes and the topic headers in the casebook as a starting point.
A few weeks before exam, start reviewing outline while keeping up with reading
Don't freak out at any time and continually remind yourself everyone is as lost/panicked/behind/confused/clueless as you are.
Repeat all of the above

That's it...it is really that simple. ;-)


It's true that there are many ways to learn, just as there are many different people. But there are consistent traits of good students.

Read assignment: Yes, but only after understanding why that assignment is there. Don't just "read" stuff, assuming that its meaning will be clear. Understand (i.e., figure out) why it is there, and THEN read it.

Think about assignment: This is why I make such a fuss. We should think about the assignment BEFORE we read it. Sounds crazy, I know, but this is a defining characteristic of the law.

Brief cases in assignment in whatever way you are comfortable: Partially true. The "partial" part is that it's certainly possible to do full case briefs of every case, and I've known students who've done this. But doing a good job will take 40 hours per week . . . before getting to classes, etc. There are also good students who do none of this, or much less, raising the question that perhaps there are better techniques. I suggest some version of Wentworth Miller's advice.

Go to class: Yes. But if class isn't fun, stop to think about why. Class should confirm an understanding you already have, and be a mental joust. Fun, yes?

Take notes: No.

After a few weeks start typing up outline using your notes and the topic headers in the casebook as a starting point: Your outline should be a distillation of what's in your head. What's in your head should be there BEFORE class. So, the ouline should precede, not follow, the class discussion.

Note: This should take less time, not more. What it does take is dedication, perseverance, and, yes, faith that it will make a difference. It will.

A few weeks before exam, start reviewing outline while keeping up with reading. Your outline is not a "thing." It is the incarnation of your knowledge. Thus, it is not "reviewed." It is lived.


Don't freak out at any time and continually remind yourself everyone is as lost/panicked/behind/confused/clueless as you are. True. There's a lot of puffery and pomposity among law school folk, and not without reason. But don't accept this at face. Law exams perform a cleansing function of sorts. (PS: You should not, however, be lost, or panicked, or behind, or confused, or clueless. If so, stop to ask why. You're smart, and the study of the law is not brain surgery.)


Repeat all of the above. Indeed so. = : )

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#91543 - 09/09/10 05:24 AM Re: Study Techniques: Advice and Comments [Re: ThaneJMessinger]
fllaw Offline
Senior Contributor


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 185
 Originally Posted By: ThaneJMessinger

(PS: You should not, however, be lost, or panicked, or behind, or confused, or clueless. If so, stop to ask why. You're smart, and the study of the law is not brain surgery.)



Now that I am 1L (the oldest in my part-time program!) I fully understand what you are saying. I have one professor who is old school Socratic. He insists that every question will be responded to with another question and he insists that you must brief every case even though he tells you he knows how horrible it is!

It is easy to get lost and sucked into the "I don't want to look dumb in class" world of marathon case briefing. But in the end you realize it does not help and does not matter.

Since I have many years of corporate experience I am not intimidated by this, I have faced much tougher situations in the real world where the outcomes really matter. I find it amusing how much the younger folk seem to care about how they are perceived!

Regards,
Howard


Edited by fllaw (09/09/10 05:26 AM)

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#92115 - 12/16/10 06:18 AM Re: Study Techniques: Advice and Comments (Grades) [Re: ThaneJMessinger]
fllaw Offline
Senior Contributor


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 185
Thane,

My first semester grades are now coming in. I applied the study techniques you advocated and I received an A- in Contracts. I think I need to improve my analysis skills but I am satisfied I did the best I could for my first try at law exams.

I passed LWR and that is all that matters there. I did not put as much effort into Bluebooking as I spent most of my time learning BLL and how to use it in my substantive classes. Next semester I have to do a brief in LWR. Problem is I hate that class! If anyone has suggestions on how to do that class well without it sucking the life out you, please let me know.

Thanks for advice and your book. I see now that I can do this. Here is hoping I did OK in Civ Pro. Have not gotten that grade yet.

Regards,
Howard


Edited by fllaw (12/16/10 06:19 AM)

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#92118 - 12/17/10 12:50 AM Re: Study Techniques: Advice and Comments (Grades) [Re: fllaw]
tonyg Offline
I have a lot of time on my hands


Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 284
Loc: Washington, D.C.
Nice job! I am jealous as we don't get grades until the second week of January. I am sure you are going to do just fine in Civ Pro. Sounds like you know what to do and will do well for the rest of law school. LWR is a crap shoot. I spent 40+ hours on my memo for LWR the first semester and got a B. I spent 6 hours the second semester and got a B. Go figure.
_________________________
Class of 2010.5
Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in. W. Churchill

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#92119 - 12/17/10 03:48 AM Re: Study Techniques: Advice and Comments (Grades) [Re: fllaw]
ThaneJMessinger Offline
Senior Contributor


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 231
 Originally Posted By: fllaw
Thane,

My first semester grades are now coming in. I applied the study techniques you advocated and I received an A- in Contracts. I think I need to improve my analysis skills but I am satisfied I did the best I could for my first try at law exams.

I passed LWR and that is all that matters there. I did not put as much effort into Bluebooking as I spent most of my time learning BLL and how to use it in my substantive classes. Next semester I have to do a brief in LWR. Problem is I hate that class! If anyone has suggestions on how to do that class well without it sucking the life out you, please let me know.

Thanks for advice and your book. I see now that I can do this. Here is hoping I did OK in Civ Pro. Have not gotten that grade yet.

Regards,
Howard



Aloha, Howard -

I'd like to second Tony's motion . . . congratulations!

An A- is no small victory. Here's to lots of additional letters--all in the very first position in the alphabet--for everyone on the board. = : )

Happy holidays to students and families all,

Thane.


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#92120 - 12/17/10 06:20 AM Re: Study Techniques: Advice and Comments (Grades) [Re: tonyg]
fllaw Offline
Senior Contributor


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 185
 Originally Posted By: tonyg
Nice job! I am jealous as we don't get grades until the second week of January. I am sure you are going to do just fine in Civ Pro. Sounds like you know what to do and will do well for the rest of law school. LWR is a crap shoot. I spent 40+ hours on my memo for LWR the first semester and got a B. I spent 6 hours the second semester and got a B. Go figure.


Tony,

Thanks!

I find LWR the most frustrating class. It demands massive amounts of time and you never sure you are doing it "right." I submitted my draft and met with the instructor. After that meeting I thought I was doing great. Then I get back my draft and it had a very point total. WTF. So I revised and submitted the final. I think the final was much better (according to the comments on my draft) but my low score on the draft killed my final score. Oh well, I'll see how the brief goes this coming semester.

Regards,
Howard

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#92123 - 12/17/10 02:09 PM Re: Study Techniques: Advice and Comments (Grades) [Re: fllaw]
ThaneJMessinger Offline
Senior Contributor


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 231
 Originally Posted By: fllaw
 Originally Posted By: tonyg
Nice job! I am jealous as we don't get grades until the second week of January. I am sure you are going to do just fine in Civ Pro. Sounds like you know what to do and will do well for the rest of law school. LWR is a crap shoot. I spent 40+ hours on my memo for LWR the first semester and got a B. I spent 6 hours the second semester and got a B. Go figure.


Tony,

Thanks!

I find LWR the most frustrating class. It demands massive amounts of time and you never sure you are doing it "right." I submitted my draft and met with the instructor. After that meeting I thought I was doing great. Then I get back my draft and it had a very point total. WTF. So I revised and submitted the final. I think the final was much better (according to the comments on my draft) but my low score on the draft killed my final score. Oh well, I'll see how the brief goes this coming semester.

Regards,
Howard



Tony, Howard, and All -

Your experiences are likely shared by most. It was certainly true for me as well, and I found out later that the head of the program had in fact never practiced law. Sigh. No matter . . . in a sense this touches upon one of Morten Lund's points in his book on memos: give bosses what they want. Usually, we have valid reasons for wanting what we want, and as new attorneys we are well advised to listen. (As if we had a choice otherwise. = : )

In law school, it's less about being "right" than about following the expected format. It should look pretty, and it should accomplish its goal with a minimum of fuss (and especially a minimum of spun wheels).

Here might be one way of reducing that frustration factor: visit your instructor as often as you can get away with, with some version of "Am I on the right track here?" From there, well, give 'em what they want . . . and happily so. That's the academic version of jujistu, yes? = : )

Happy holidays to all!

Thane.

PS: Academic noogies to your instructor, Howard, for counting drafts at all, much less heavily. Required, sure, but the point of a draft is to get to the final. As with law exams and law school, once it's committed to the final final (paper or memory), earlier drafts are all but irrelevant. In the real world they are relevant only if a mistake is made or to confirm a specific point; we do cross-check of course, but we revise forward, not backward. In law school, the point is to show and teach that there is that process, and that it's important to reach the final product. Shame on them.

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#92125 - 12/18/10 12:25 AM Re: Study Techniques: Advice and Comments (Grades) [Re: ThaneJMessinger]
AnnaD Online   content
NTL Addict


Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 565
Of course, if drafts didn't count, many students would blow them off.
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#92132 - 12/21/10 06:40 AM Re: Study Techniques: Advice and Comments (Grades) [Re: ThaneJMessinger]
fllaw Offline
Senior Contributor


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 185
 Originally Posted By: ThaneJMessinger


Tony, Howard, and All -

Your experiences are likely shared by most. It was certainly true for me as well, and I found out later that the head of the program had in fact never practiced law. Sigh. No matter . . . in a sense this touches upon one of Morten Lund's points in his book on memos: give bosses what they want. Usually, we have valid reasons for wanting what we want, and as new attorneys we are well advised to listen. (As if we had a choice otherwise. = : )

In law school, it's less about being "right" than about following the expected format. It should look pretty, and it should accomplish its goal with a minimum of fuss (and especially a minimum of spun wheels).

Here might be one way of reducing that frustration factor: visit your instructor as often as you can get away with, with some version of "Am I on the right track here?" From there, well, give 'em what they want . . . and happily so. That's the academic version of jujistu, yes? = : )

Happy holidays to all!

Thane.

PS: Academic noogies to your instructor, Howard, for counting drafts at all, much less heavily. Required, sure, but the point of a draft is to get to the final. As with law exams and law school, once it's committed to the final final (paper or memory), earlier drafts are all but irrelevant. In the real world they are relevant only if a mistake is made or to confirm a specific point; we do cross-check of course, but we revise forward, not backward. In law school, the point is to show and teach that there is that process, and that it's important to reach the final product. Shame on them.



Thane,

Thanks for the advice. I am going to try an see my LWR instructor more often. The problem for many of us working non-trads is time. I am going to have to leave work early on a few more days to make these appointments.

I learned a lot about law school (not sure how much about law ) this first semester. Only nine more to go! I did really well in Ks because, for some reason, I liked the subject and spent more study time on it. This coming semester I need to devote more time to my other classes.

I found that nothing that happened in class seems to have affected my performance on the finals. This was anticipated. For example, my A- in Ks was based on my outline which I generated from the case book TOC, and Emanual's outline. I will continue this...

Regards,
Howard

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#92138 - 12/22/10 12:22 AM Re: Study Techniques: Advice and Comments (Grades) [Re: AnnaD]
ThaneJMessinger Offline
Senior Contributor


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 231
 Originally Posted By: AnnaD
Of course, if drafts didn't count, many students would blow them off.


Anna -

Indeed so, and I have to laugh. I too used to give points for drafts--the purpose of which was to help students in their work and final product and, ahem, to catch plagiarism--until I heard from a colleague who required them, period. No draft, no grade. Then again, we fogeys will be out to pasture before too long. = : )

You're quite right, however, that students dance to the music with the most points. 'Tis understandable. The shame is on us, really.

Thane.

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